As a kid, I put down the book JAWS because I reached a point where one character was cussing out another character. Nowadays, I probably would’ve kept reading.
Why? My thoughts on the issue of profanity have changed.
Yes, kids. It was a novel first.
In my opinion (and that’s all this post is, folks), the use of profanity in fiction–even in Christian fiction–isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In fact, sometimes it can enhance a story in ways that other language cannot.
My goal here is not to be inflammatory but rather to inspire a meaningful, respectful discussion about this topic. You, the reader, don’t have to agree. In fact, I welcome your respectful disagreements to these thoughts.
(WARNING: This post contains some profanity.)
1. There’s plenty of gratuitous content in the Bible.
There’s a lot of crude and graphic writing in the Bible. Google it, or flip to Ezekiel 23 for an example of some ridiculously obscene language.
Pastors, try preaching a sermon on that passage without reading the text aloud to your congregation. Congregants, try listening to it! Most American churchgoers would lose their collective minds if someone read that passage aloud on Sunday morning.
I’m just going to leave this here.
I won’t go into too much detail about the Ezekiel 23 passage, but suffice it to say that the author told a story to make a point to his audience–and he used some really colorful words in the process. And that text made it into the Bible–God’s inspired, Holy, infallible Word.
So if you’re going to throw out a Christian novel because it has the word “damn” in it, then discard your Bible right along with it.
2. Cultural Meaning Matters.
While other words may have comparable meaning, only one word carries with it the cultural impact and punch that “shit” does. That’s its inherent value/infamy in our contemporary American-English vernacular. In other languages, that word just doesn’t carry the same impact.
Consequently, it’s that same reason why some people don’t think that word should be used: it carries a lot of meaning that other words don’t.
So the use of that word (or any word deemed profane) needs to happen in an appropriate context because of its inherent impact. (More on that in #4.)
3. An author shouldn’t avoid profanity just to keep someone from “stumbling.”
If we’re bound to apply Paul’s call to not cause anyone to stumble to our writing, we might as well stop writing now. Writing, by nature, is provocative. (And writing fiction, by one definition, is the telling of an extended lie.)
At some point, no matter how much I sanitize or censor my writing, I’m going to offend someone or “cause them to stumble.” This is especially true for authors who write speculative fiction.
On the other side of the coin, let’s not forget that Paul also advocates maturity. In the case of writing, this maturity falls on both the author and the reader.
In my opinion, authors should use profanity sparingly and only for necessary impact when writing fiction. I’m not a fan of authors dropping F-bombs every third sentence, for example. Instead, I prefer that authors use profanity only when it will have the greatest punch in their writing (if they use profanity at all).
As for readers, if someone is offended or verging on stumbling because of something they’ve read, then they need to let the Holy Spirit guide them to put the book down, or turn the page, or find some other solution that doesn’t involve protesting until the book (or other content) gets banned from their local Christian bookstore.
The key here is mutual respect: readers, don’t blast authors for including bad words in their stories. Similarly, authors shouldn’t blast readers for being prudes or not “getting” their writing.
And at the end of the day, it’s not the author’s job to babysit someone else’s Christianity.
4. Above all else, context is king.
If you have a pastor swearing and cursing in your story, sure, I could see why that’s a poor representation of Christ.
But if you’ve written a drug dealer holding a gun to another guy’s head, he’s not going to say, “I’m done fooling around with you and your doo-doo. I’m going to blow your gosh-darned head off, you son of a biscuit.”
If you whitewash that scene, you’re lying to your reader. You’re not telling the truth or writing authentic fiction.
The truth is, life is ugly. Sin is ugly. We as authors don’t have to paint egregious depictions of sin, but sanitizing it for “sensitive readers” won’t help them either.
I believe our primary mandate in writing fiction is to tell the truth through story. I also believe we should be afforded the freedom to tell that story in the way we feel it needs to be told. If someone disagrees with what an author writes, there’s a solution for that, too…
5. Know your audience.
If you’re writing for today’s Christian market, plan on nixing extreme content altogether. (Except for violence–for some reason, Christendom doesn’t seem to care as much about that.)
Why? It’s because today’s Christian audience doesn’t want that content in the fiction they consume.
If you, the author, choose to include profanity in a story and a reader doesn’t like it, kindly let them know that they’re not that book’s target audience. Then go out and find another reader who is in your target audience.
But readers, please stop hating on authors if they include such content! It’s not solely the author’s fault that you don’t like what they wrote. As the old saying goes, “it takes two to tango”–the author AND the reader.
Conclusion
Point #4 is the most essential element of this whole debate–specifically the part about authors needing to tell the truth in their fiction. I think that if we can apply Galatians 5 to our approach to writing (and reading), Christian fiction will be better off going forward.
What do you think about this issue? Where do you draw your lines with profanity in Christian fiction–or in your everyday vernacular? Do you see an argument that I missed, either for or against this idea? Tell me your thoughts in the comments below.
Good luck getting it published. The gatekeepers won’t do it…at least not the ones that
matter.
I agree, Michael, if I’m aiming for Christian publishers. I know I’ll have to write things a certain way to satisfy them. But for general market fiction, perhaps I have more of a chance.
Very interesting discussion. I write for a secular audience, but with a Christian background (sort of like CS Lewis, but he was purposefully blatant with his metaphors. I have to be more sneaky). I have a 13+ YA series that I try to keep almost all language out of because parents don’t want their kids reading profanity in their books. However, I would absolutely agree that as writers we need to write really characters, and real people swear, so characters are going to swear sometimes too. I do think, though, that it is profitable to find ways to not say the actual word, if possible, like saying “he swore loudly” instead of saying “fuck!” JK Rowling uses this method in the Harry Potter books, implying that her characters use very colorful profanity at times, but never actually writing the words down. It can be a way to show the truth of the character while not offending readers.
I really like how you’ve laid this out, Lydia. I think the “disguise-the-profanity” method can work at times, and I try to rely on that when I can, but sometimes a stronger expression is needed. That’s where we circle back to the context part of this post, I think.
I agree entirely. Another point is character development. It’s really s choice between developing the character through innuendo, which is weak, or through material action which is strong. The decision us only based on what is your endstate you wish to achieve.
Great point about gatekeepers.
I am in full agreement. On pretty much every level. I have always laughed about the fact that a book can be super gory but if a Christian character acts like a human with passion such as anger or sexual attraction it’s not accepted. I just write what I am led to write. Some people described one of my books as edgy, yet tastefully written while another say it’s like reading soft porn. To me that speaks more of the readers interpretation of the events alluded to and one could say the offended reader has a dirty mind. If I say someone unbuttoned his pants and ended the scene with no other description, then whether you are offended or not is often due to what you think (as a reader) is going to happen next since I never actually wrote about what happened in detail. I have also used creativity in describing cussing to make it original. In one book the character’s wife gives him the finger and proceeds to call him names, some of which he had never heard before. I never have him actually stating the words or repeating them in his thoughts. In another section the cheated on wife calls the other woman a whore. It has more impact that hussy – just sayin’.
You’re hitting on some hard truths, Michelle. The idea that some people have different levels or qualifications for “extreme” content is a big issue, but in my opinion, it’s not solvable in any workable way. We can only do as you’ve said and write what we’re led to write. Thanks for commenting.
I write from a Catholic Christian worldview, and, interestingly, (most) Catholic audiences seem much more tolerant of “edginess” than evangelical Christian audiences. But, a large segment of Christian publishing is only interested in very sanitized portrayals.
I write what I write. I don’t bat an eye at mild cuss words used here and there, and I’m still perplexed by a kerfuffle in Christian romance circles a few years back over an author’s use of the word “crap.” Really?
Carolyn Astfalk, I realize this post is old, but I just found it since I’m researching comparable titles to my short story for my online university course, Context of Writing. Maybe I should look into Catholic Christian publishing sites, although, I will probably just self-publish, I still need to know in what genre to place my stories. My inspirational novel won’t be accepted by the Christian publishers because it has a few mild cuss words and the main character is learning about what it means to love and from her past mistakes in relationships. How can you show human growth and transformation in coming to embrace God if you aren’t permitted to show it? The human condition and the journey of human beings through their lives is what make good stories and ones worth reading, imo. Anyway, I’ll have to see about the Catholic Christian publishers. This Eastern Orthodox Christian has nowhere to submit her one inspirational novel (working on a second one now….not sure if it’ll be short story or novella). Thanks for this outlet, Ben Wolf, and for a thoughtful and important piece.
The last book I published, the character started out using some language. I felt like I was led to clean it up and take it out because the message was more important. People would have missed what was being said because the language would have been distracting. I think as Christian writer’s we need to seek and depend on the Holy Spirit. If language will stop someone and make them see what the Spirit is doing then we use it. God works all things to our good. There is no list of exceptions. And if He works things to our good, he does that for other–even unbelievers. They are His kids too. I think following the leading of the Holy Spirit is more important than what language we use.
There is no way to please everyone so it’s best to be true to your story. I have a short story in an anthology where the MC is invited to a strip club at a bridal shower. She declines the invitation! Yet, a couple of reviewers thought it worldly and didn’t belong. Their eyes should have never fallen on such a scene. *Gasp!* Gimme a break. Fortunately, the comments do not bother me other than making me roll my eyes. I don’t lose any sleep over them and I’m still grateful they read my book and something impacted them enough for them to remember to gripe about it.
She refuses and people griped about it? People are actually scandalized by the mention of it? I have a hard time understanding that.
Thanks for the conversation. It’s much needed. I write “prepper fiction” which is a realistic depiction of the collapse of civilization. Try writing that scenario with good golly gosh. Sigh. Maybe underneath the surface, this is really a conversation about realism vs. fantasy. Maybe. Good golly gosh.
The topic of discussion here is “profanity”. It is interesting to note that the synonym to this listed in the dictionary is blasphemy or showing no respect for God. Ben your discussion as well as some of the comments here seem to have overlapped onto the issue of being prudish when writing Christian fiction. I believe both are entirely different matters.
As an author who writes edgier Christian fiction I admit it is sometimes frustrating to come up against prudish road blocks that don’t want us discussing the messy things in life like sex, prostitution, passion and so on. That makes Christian fiction irrelevant and less realistic.
As you mentioned Ben “Point #4 is the most essential element of this whole debate–specifically the part about authors needing to tell the truth in their fiction.” So I’m all in favour of edgier Christian fiction as that is what I write. It is unfortunate that there is even such a category because all authors Christian or otherwise are expected to create stories and characters so real that the readers are blown away by the book.
In your article though, Ben, we are talking about profanity which deals with language and personally I don’t like reading it nor do I like watching movies that contain profanity. I totally understand your argument about keeping things real which is why I write edgier Christian fiction too. Language though is a different story.
Several decades ago there wasn’t such profanity in our language. The media is very powerful. The more people watch these in the movies and probably read it too, the more society mimics what they see and read. So if the material out there is profanity, the language adopted is the same.
So I think authors have a responsibility to keep the language clean not only because I agree with the dictionary synonym to profanity but also because as a writer I value the beauty of wonderfully crafted language and don’t want to be part of degrading it. The more we read high quality books with excellent use of language the better we speak and express ourselves. There is nothing more impressive than having a conversation with a person who is eloquent.
I appreciate the distinction you made in your comment between edgy and profane language/situations. I think each person’s line is different and appreciate it when someone warns me about the level of profanity in a book. Considering the populations I work with, I don’t think I am avoiding reality, but I might be a prude. 🙂
I don’t like reading profanity (or hearing it, for that matter) in books either, but I think mild language shouldn’t be prohibited. I can understand prohibiting God’s name in vain with the “D” word. That’s highly offensive and the worst of all curse words. I think the more offensive and bad language should be prohibited. But what if people don’t agree on what those most awful curse words are? Maybe some people think “hell” is a horribly bad word. Then what? I do think it’s what you grow up with on whether the words are really that impactful or bothersome to a person.
I have two thoughts on this. It’s true, the Bible would never be published in our Christian publishing houses. Incest, rape, prostitution, murder, profanity, slaughter, adultery, polygamy, slavery, deception etc. I may have missed a few…
Look at the Book of Ruth. Her mother-in-law tells her what to do to get Boaz. He’s drunk. Her actions are nothing short of seduction- laying at his feet is like giving herself to him – why would he have her sneak out if not that?
To keep things clean, I use the profanity in my first draft (sometimes). Then I clean it up as much as possible. In a scene in one of my WIPs the MC and his team were on a mission, failed, and a reader told me, really? That big of failure and anger brings out the worst language (try fracturing something without profanity. Go ahead). So I added the f-bomb and he said, LOL now you can tone that back just a bit…
And, Hell is a real place. Used in context. What about two people not sleeping together, but in the same house for security sake? Gives a bad rep. Again, look at Ruth. Much more scandalous than someone laying on a couch making sure the MC isn’t attacked etc. Swearing in one of my novels is ‘I swore under my breath,’ or ‘I was trying to get that swearing habit under control.’ The mMC in wartime was edgier.
I might add, I am not yet published, so … it’s just my op.
But getting it into a PH is another story.
I wouuld say the Bible has no “gratuitous” content while it does have some very graphic content. The difference being gratuitous is just unneeded to the story and thrown in to shock or stimulate.
The Bible uses graphic language when it’s central to the point and avoids it otherwise. Which is why “Adam knew his wife” and cities are described as destroyed by the edge of the sword with no other details. But Ezekiel 32 is a passage whose point is to show how disgusting spiritual idolatry is to God. It uses strong language as a result.(Note language that strong is very rare in the Bible.)
Perhaps that suggests a possible approach. Perhaps the use of profanity makes sense when there simply is no other way to tell the story. But ought to be avoided at all other times.
Very well expressed. Touche!
Oh, I like this! I like the gratuitous distinction.
I think the use of “knew” as you used in your example, is how the people of the OT talked. I don’t think it was done to be polite, but that was how they spoke.
I’m curious about this whole topic, not only in regards to profanity, but just generally non-squeaky clean content. I wrote a three-part novel about a Christian widowed mother and son, a non-Christian man (who converts) and a pretty nasty kidnapping. The first part was predominantly about the growth of the man’s faith along with their relationship, whereas the second part is both showing his struggle and the kidnapping of the kid. It’s not pretty, and to whitewash it would make it feel more like a Scooby Doo cartoon than a realistic story of people getting shot and a kid killing his kidnapper in self-defense. How does a Christian write that without crossing a line? Can they? And how in the world would it be categorized? (Self-publishing, for sure, but I don’t even know the genre to put it in.) Any advice?
I typically read only Christian fiction & I have been disappointed in the use of profanity in a particular author. Ben… I personally find your article to be very immature & lukewarm for a Christian author. As a Christian, are we set apart? A light in this world? If we express ourselves as the world does, then there is no difference. Sounds like compromise to me, straddling a fence etc… Reading the post makes me know that some Christians don’t mind offending God, as long as they can freely express themselves in their writings.
Joann,
Thanks for commenting. Can you explain to me why the use of profanity in fiction or in real life means that we as Christians are somehow not living “apart” from the world? How does profanity offend God? How does the use of profanity prevent us from being a light unto the world?
Those are all claims you’ve made. Now you get to back them up. Please use scripture to make your case, otherwise your argument can only hinge on societal expectations which are not of God, either.
I’d also like you to list which words you feel are inappropriate for Christians to say/use/write and why they are inappropriate. For example, I’d like you to explain to me the difference in saying “dang” instead of “damn,” even if the intent behind it is the same. Or “poop,” “feces,” “crap,” and “shit.” What is the difference between those words and how they are used? And do you have scriptural support for why some of them should or should not be used?
If you’d rather not delve into this discussion so deeply, that’s fine. In fact, if you want, we can cut to the chase right here and now: the lines you’re drawing don’t have a scriptural basis but rather a societal one. Society tells us which words are stronger, more profane words, not the Bible. There is no list of prohibited words in scripture. I’ve read the Bible cover to cover several times, so I know it’s not in there.
Ironically, Christians decry the evils of society, some of which are worth decrying, yet in other ways we rely on society’s rules to govern how we interact with each other. Profanity is one of them.
However, Jesus is clear in the Sermon on the Mount that our INTENTION matters as much as our actual actions (and words) do. This is obvious when he discusses adultery and murder (if you’ve thought about them, you’ve committed them your heart). So taking into account that scriptural principle (which we can definitely point to as something Jesus said), it’s not at all a stretch to extend the same principle to profanity.
If I say “damn you” to someone, I am sinning, because I am damning them to hell in my heart. That is the intent behind the word. Likewise, I can be vicious and rude and cruel with my words to someone and never utter a single word of profanity. Am I still sinning? Yes, definitely. But if I say “oh, shoot” or “oh, shit” when I drop a bowl of pasta on my kitchen floor, and it splatters all over the place, then am I sinning? I contend not. What’s the difference between those words in that context? There is none, except, again, the stigma society has placed upon certain ones over others.
That’s why “bitch” is not a bad word when it’s used to accurately describe a literal female dog, but when you start using it as a foul name for other people, it becomes profanity. That is, perhaps, the most ideal example I can give to illustrate my point about your views stemming form society rather than from scripture.
So until you can prove that I’m wrong with actual scriptural understanding as a basis, perhaps you should refrain from calling me immature and lukewarm.
Ben… I do apologize for offending you. The dictionary states that profanity (cussing) is blasphemy & disrespect for God. Scripture states we (Christians) are to build each other up & not be stumbling blocks. Ephesians 5:3-4 speaks of obscenity, foolish talk etc… ( not quoting ) Col 3:8. Eph 4:29. Matt 15:10-11. Jm 3:10. These are a few that clearly mention foul language/profanity. There are other scriptures that mention are talk/tongue etc… the reason I used the word immaturity (maybe not the best choice of words) is that I’ve met so many Christians that sugar coat sin. It can be easy for any of us Christians to compromise, reason sin away, make excuses etc… if & when it suits us. And what growing in Holiness? If we are to be holy because He is holy & I think we know God/Jesus didn’t use profanity, then why would we? I have Christian friends & non Christian friends… my non Christian friends would look at me like I have two heads if I went around cussing. I believe scripture is very clear how we are to conduct ourselves as followers of Christ & “ we all sin & fall short the glory of God”. But if someone who knows Gods word & has surrender to serving Him… I think we all need to be careful not to offend our Lord. Joann
Joann,
Thank you for commenting again.
Believe me when I say that I understand where you’re coming from. I agree that as Christians, we are to be set apart. However, I believe we can and should draw lines where we feel grace from the Holy Spirit to draw said lines. I’m content to leave it at that for now.
Hi, this is a great discussion, thanks for everyone’s input.
I like the idea of intent of the heart from ‘The Sermon on the Mount’, seeking guidance from Holy Spirit in the matter, and also asking “is it necessary?” as a check on making sure you are not only using something in your story for stimulation or entertainment. But, on the contrary, you use something so that it serves a larger point in the story.
Also I was thinking about how some people actually do use profanity and obscenities ALL THE TIME (obnoxiously) in real life. So are these types of characters off limit? It seems not; authors like Stephen King who admit that a writer must ‘tell the truth’ and ‘be real’. What about War? What about conflict? What about murder? What about drug use? What about infidelity? etc.
C.S.Lewis created a suggestive character named “Screw tape”. Was that wrong? Or was it used to illustrate a point about darkness that is important for us to consider?
If it is for the sake of the story (such as exploring the darker sides of evil and humanity), but a drastic case-such as this case above concerning a very profane character or act-can seem troubling to a Christian novelist.
I am sure many are nodding your head right now at that last observation. Would any Christian novelist ever include such an obscene character?
Such as a horribly obscene character from a Rob Zombie movie, a horror movie about the devil, or some obscene slasher film or story, should they include such characters?
If so, why? and how? Can it be done without sinning? Is it a sin in the first place?
Should they themselves be thinking of such things? How can they think of these things and still “being focusing on what is good, pure, right, and true?” Maybe “true” is the key word here?
After all, there are people and situations like this in real life. Unfortunately there are: Horrible people. Foolish people. Obscene people. And worse.
So, I don’t know-what do you all think?
I can see why some Christians are troubled by this predicament-can you feature foul things in writing?
As I believe it is Paul who says, paraphrasing, “do away with all foul language/obscenity, don’t let anyone deceive you that it’s ok to use foul language/be obscene”. Philosophically, it does seem to be a paradoxical problem from the Christian perspective.
I do like the idea of how J.K.Rowling disguises the language by saying “he or she cursed under their breath” or something along those lines. That seems to be useful to use if it can get the message across as well as the alternative option.
Also I was thinking about how you could invent a language if it’s sci-fi or fantasy which represents expletives in language, but not being native language, because it was created by the author, it expresses these expletives without real offense.
Or what do people thinking about a censoring approach , as in f******, s***, etc.?, bleeping bleeper.
Upon first and quick interrogation, it seems, most Christians would say no curse words/obscenities allowed because the Bible says so. Maybe Rowling is right in her approach, and maybe Stephen King is right to write profanely to get across a point. Maybe they are both wrong. Maybe they are both partly right.
Also maybe these profane things are not the important things we should write in the first place-maybe we should focus on other more important matters in our writing. Are there more important matters?
In other words is it better to write about topics that do not require profanity at all, because those things are not things we should be focused on in life? Or are these things important enough to consider in our life that we should include them? To develop emotional and practical understanding of the different facets of life?
Also how Rowling creates the evil character of ‘Voldemort’ and Tolkien creates “Sauron” seems to create a character which encapsulates “the evil/profane/obscene” without having to literally say and explicate profane things… do we need to say and explicate profane things or can we hint at them through characters and other means to still get the point across? Do people need to experience the things literally or can they experience them imaginatively enough because we all have the capacity to do this drawing from our own life experiences?
In Stephen Kings the Shining does Jack Torrance do and say things that show a certain part of humanity-that is profane & obscene-that the characters Voldemort or Sauron can not show because of the limitations those authors put on displaying obscenity in their books? And if Jack Torrance does display things that the evil characters Voldemort and Sauron do not and can not display, are these things which Jack Torrance displays important for the reader to consider? Or are they mere entertainment and stimulation? Conversely are they important to consider, because the darkness of what Jack Torrance does is relatable to all of us & is actually important to consider? This is all not any easy question form the Christian standpoint, but it does seem Jack Torrance displays things about darkness and psychology that Voldemort and Sauron do not.
I am not saying I have the answer to all this, but just wanted to share some thoughts, some related theological dilemmas, and also spur more discussion here-as I am interested in what others think. I think everyone so far has shared interesting sides of the coin. I found it interesting that most in this post sided essentially with the Stephen King “be true, be real” motto. Whereas there were a few minor detractors of this motto so far-those that believe an alternative should be used or that obscenities should not be expressed at all. It would be interesting to see what most Christian spiritual leaders/authors would say if questioned on this issue. I think it’s important.
Have good intentions of the heart, follow the truth, and listen to Holy Spirit seems to be the way to the answer. As with everything else.
Thank you for your thorough reply. It is indeed an ongoing discussion, and I think you hit the nail on the head with your last two sentences.
I think a writer (or actor) has no talent if he/she can’t convey the message without profanity. That applies to any writing or acting, Christian or not.
Hi Linda,
Thanks for commenting. By your assessment, then, some of the writers of the Bible have “no talent.” Nor does Stephen King, John Grisham, Lee Child, or any number of other bestselling authors who have sold millions of copies across the board.
I understand these are your personal feelings, but I’m not sure you even understand the extremeness of the claim you’re making. It’s totally unsubstantiated, and it’s anecdotal and personal at best. It isn’t really based in any aspect of reality–just on your beliefs, and thus your claim, even though you strongly adhere to it, can be proven false any number of ways if you were to look outside of your own experience.
So while I’m not suggesting you have to (or even that you should) change your opinion, I do think it’s wise for you to reassess the statement’s broadness and consider the accuracy (and, frankly, the callousness) of what you’re claiming.
My follow-up question(s) for you, if you’re willing to answer it/them, is: why are you landing on this particular measuring stick for talent? Especially when there are so many other ways to quantify “talent?” Profanity is such a minor aspect of storytelling, especially considering how much goes into the process of creating a novel. It’s as if you’re taking 1% of a story’s makeup and saying that because you disagree with that 1%, the entire story is destroyed.
If you care to elaborate, please do so.
Ezekiel 23 describes some colourful scenes, but it never uses colourful words. I think there is a difference between describing something “bad” and using “bad” words. You can do the first without the second. Ezekiel does.
If you want an example of an actual bad word in the Bible, the Living Bible Paraphrase translates John 9:34 as “You illegitimate bastard, you!”. That’s the closest I’ve ever seen.
Hey Tim,
Thanks for commenting. I think the question lies within what we determine to be “bad” words.
As far as Ezekiel not using bad words… well, that’s because early translations sanitized the heck out of what he wrote. This article from Relevant Magazine provides some vivid examples of what I’m saying: https://relevantmagazine.com/life5/what-bleep-does-bible-say-about-profanity/
As far as actual bad words in the Bible, there are plenty of other examples beyond the one you mentioned. It depends on the translation, of course, but that’s why it’s so important (imperative, even) to go to the original Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic or other language(s) of the text to try to more fully understand what is being said.
So I don’t think I can fully agree withy for take, but I respect that you took time to comment. I’m happy to continue the conversation if you’re interested in doing so.